Reasons for leaving

Countering such beliefs as are  listed below will have no effect on those who hold them, because they come from deep in the gut rather than the head. However, putting my counter-arguments on record makes me feel better.

A Facebook friend records:

All of the below are genuine comment I have heard or read in the last three weeks. [Comments in blue are mine - FHL]

1) they (the EU) are going to abolish the English [sic] monarchy.
Forty years since the UK joined the European Community, our royal family is still going strong. Nor have the other five monarchies within the EU been affected.

2) it (the EU) was set up by Hitler.
Historically incorrect. Hitler wanted to impose a tyrannical German empire which would last a thousand years.The European Community (now the EU) was formed after the defeat of the Nazis by free nations by consent in which each should have a say in how it progressed. 

3) it’s a front for Germany to keep Vichy France going.
See above. France has had several governments of different political stripes varying from the socialist to the conservative since the 1950s. There is no way the Germans could have changed the way the French voted.

4) leaving it will stop all the Muslims coming in.
Our large Muslim population is as a result of traditional Commonwealth links, and its growth has probably slowed since our accession to the EU. The majority are now integrated and their departure would cause the UK economy and government structures to collapse.

Part of LeaveEU's Project Fear was that we would be swamped by millions of Turkish Muslims. This was in spite of the fact that Turkey's application to join the EU had been shelved by the Commission in view of Turkey's increasing authoritarianism. Most Turks would have headed for the country's traditional ally, Germany, anyway. 

5) We’re not allowed to trade outside the EU.
Yes, we can. What about all the Scotch we sell to the US for a start? We are also, through the EU, party to trade agreements with over sixty other countries, more than we had as a separate country in 1973 when we joined. Then we had free trade deals with six other nations as a result of EFTA We cannot fall back on these, because EFTA is now in the European single market.

6) We never voted for the President.
The president is nominated by the Council (on which our ministers sit) and voted on by the parliament, for which we voted every four years, the last time in 2015. 

7) They steal all our fish.
Not all our fish, but perhaps Edward Heath and later Margaret Thatcher gave away too much in agreeing to share access to home waters. Having said that, there was little complaint back in 1973, owners of fishing licences in England were only too happy to sell them to other EU members, sea fishing represents only 0.48% of the UK's GDP and conservation of fish stocks has improved since membership.

8 ) We just ‘fall back onto World Trade rules’.
It is certainly not going to be as simple as that, but the legal position is unclear. The UK is a member of the WTO in our own right, being one of the founder members of its predecessor organisation, the GATT, and confirmed in 1995. There is opinion that we may carry on with the same rights and responsibilities which we acquired while members of the EU. However, some other WTO members have made it clear that they are not going to make it easy for us to assert those rights.

What is certain is that:
The WTO requires member countries to apply tariffs (taxes) on goods and services to other WTO countries equally. It also means you can’t set different rules for foreign and domestic products in your country. 

So free trade is out of the window until we negotiate deals with other countries. This will take many years, because we will have to build up our trade negotiating expertise, which we had no need of when we joined the EC.

9) We can get rid of all them ‘human rights’.
Advice from parliamentary lawyers is that we could have abolished human rights legislation and even pulled out of the European Convention on Human Rights without having to give up our membership of the EU. (This is not true of new members since a change in accession arrangements made since we joined; they have to specifically sign up to the ECHR.) Indeed, repeal of the Human Rights Act has been part of at least one Conservative manifesto. The fact that the Tories did not follow through shows that there is not a majority, even among MPs, to revert to the Common Law. And why should we?

10) “We done alright before”.
Even with Commonwealth preference (and that was being dismantled as our previous Imperial possessions flexed their muscles after the last world war) trade was not as buoyant as it is today and the unemployment figures were seldom out of the headlines. 

11) We’ve got the Commonwealth.
We caused much resentment among fellow Commonwealth members when we joined the EEC and tore up trade agreements with them. Very few will rush to sign up with us again, especially since most have made better arrangements locally. There have been some sympathetic noises from conservative politicians in Australia and New Zealand, but they are in the minority. 

There is also the question as to whether the Commonwealth will survive the reign of the present Queen. The heir apparent has shown no interest in fulfilling his duties as head of the Commonwealth and indeed seems to have the same attitude towards non-white citizens as his father.

12) We can restart the Empire.
By force? With our run-down armed forces? And against world opinion? The USA has a lock on our use of the nuclear weapons we buy from them, so we can hardly threaten the nuclear powers of India and Pakistan.

13) We can go on better holidays further away; The Canaries are great for starters.
The Canary Islands are a Spanish possession. Therefore our easy access is through the EU. 

14) I don’t care about DEALS, I just want OUT.
There is no answer to that.

15) They need us more than we need them.
Possibly true of Ireland, where in terms of trade and power distribution the Republic is practically dependent on the UK (but the converse is also true for the people of Northern Ireland). The Netherlands would also be affected by Brexit, though not to the same extent. But overall, while almost half of our exports are to the rest of the EU, less than a fifth of the EU 27's exports come to the UK. We need them more than they need us.

16) We’re OUT! We left and they can’t drag us back in.
We are not out yet. The Article 50 letter can be revoked. There was resistance, especially from France, to our joining in the first place. There will be no great desire among the 27 to want us back except on the same terms as the other members. There will be no special privileges just because we are British.

17) Churchill never wanted it.
Churchill was very much in favour of closer alliances between European nations. He was a supporter of the European Coal and Steel Community which was a forerunner of the EEC/EC/EU. He pressed for common standards of human rights through the ECHR and ensured that we signed up to it (it was largely drafted in the UK). Opinions differ as to how committed he was to the desirability of UK membership of the European Community (there is evidence both ways), but there is no doubt that he wanted an end to strife within Europe, having been involved in two destructive wars which started on the continent. 

18) I go to Thailand on me holidees. The pound rate is shit now but’s worf it to get OUT!
The pound sterling is worth around 12% less than it was just before the 2016 referendum, and we are not even out yet. It will clearly fall further if UK exits. 

There are currently free trade talks between the EU and Thailand. We will not benefit from these if we are outside the EU.

19) we can control are boarders now [sic].
We are entitled to more control over movement of people from the continent than the government lets on. Government is not prepared to fund the agency which could police the restrictions on free movement of the unemployed or to crack down on employers who pay less than the national wage.

And, of course, our legal restrictions on entry from the rest of the world, including the Commonwealth, have remained in force. Ironically, they may have to be loosened in future if we are to make up for the exodus of health professionals from the rest of Europe. 

20) My uncle was on the Normandy beaches. He didn’t fight for THAT lot!
I wonder if that particular citizen consulted his uncle. I know that my own father, who served in North Africa and Italy in the last world war, was an enthusiast for remaining in the European Community when the first referendum was held in 1975. 

The drive to join the Community was spearheaded by Edward Heath and supported by Denis Healey. both of whom saw active service in the fight-back against the Axis powers.

It was not until the mid-1950s, as part of a military family in Germany, that I saw a fraction of the damage wrought by the war. There had been a remarkable programme of rebuilding, fuelled by the "Economic miracle" attributed to Konrad Adenauer's CDU government, but there were still signs of war damage. I particularly remember seeing one tower of Cologne cathedral truncated and shrouded in scaffolding as the custodians ran a lottery to fund its restoration.